Am off to Austin for the week,and completely off-line. Enjoy the next few days, please!
One thought on “On Aggressive Apathy”
One Female Canuck
13 Comments:
Anonymous michelle said…
As always, it’s well written Miss M. Whether it’s online or off, one must stare situations like that in the face and what you decide to do is truly a reflection of who you are.
Of course it’s easier to tell someone they’re a dumb shit online. 😀
Two things: Isn’t Sarte also credited with the line “hell is other people” ? (I know nothing of the context of that quote, just the line itself)
And you might find this interesting, or you might not, a small snippet here:
“three of the four greatest American philanthropists have been athiests or agnostics. In a country in which 96% of the population say they believe in a supreme being, that’s a striking fact. It means that in one sense, Gates and Buffett are probably less self-interested in their charity than someone like Mother Teresa, who as a pious Roman Catholic believed in reward and punishment in the afterlife.”
sourceEnjoy the vacay!
Thu May 14, 08:59:00 AM
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Anonymous Anonymous said…
Posting this on behalf of Maha, who is stuck in the Toronto Airport for a few hours…with technical difficulties. Poor thing.
Love you beautiful. – Baby J.
hope this works – I’m trying to comment from the berry while in toronto’s airport.
.1. Existentialism / nihilism are contested on this point. This lecture by sartre was is response to ppl accusing the concepts of being without humanity.
The argument is strong on both cases – in theology-based, you must believe that you will have to answer to a greater being for your silence and so are we acting out of humanity or fear from the greater being? I know from where my actions come and I will be judged on what’s in my heart. Each individual knows that secret and only they know it. For me, it is between myself and God.
On the flip – for an atheist, to choose action and humanity JUST because, and not out of fear from a greater Being is arguably better than others.
In the end,I don’t give a fuck, quite honestly, why people are NOT apathetic. What I care about is that they act. Full stop.
I am in between re existentialism is a humanism. If sartre hadn’t needed to defend this, would he have written this lecture? And when one considers how he lived his private life, does this lecture make sense? I would argue ‘no’…but that’s just me.
.2. Interesting about atheists / Believers and philanthropy.
Like I sadi, I don’t care either way…but indeed interesting when one considers that over 80 or 85% of the world’s population believes in God. But I have a problem with the fact that faith has become tradition and superstition and not about the principles the like of which are discussed by liberation theologists such as those mentioned…different topic, different article!
Hope this goes through…am off to have chicken fried steak 🙂
Xxoo
Maha
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry.
Thu May 14, 10:32:00 AM
**********
Anonymous Anonymous said…
Whether or not you’re telling someone they’re a dumb shit on line or in real life, your name’s on this article and I, for one, applaud you for that.
That’s a lot more courage than people who either sit around and point fingers or just sit behind a handle and behave aggressively on-line where no one knows them – where there’s no picture of them or real name to be found.
I’m just sayin’.
By the way, I love this article and the fact that it’s so in your face. I am printing up and keeping it with me to hand off to the next asshole I meet or overhear.
That’s my promise.
Steve
Thu May 14, 11:28:00 AM
**********
Anonymous lily said…
Maha – this is another excellent fucking piece! It gave me goosebumps to read it and I read it a few times.
I’ve forwarded it to people also.
I promise to. Fuck, I don’t know what to promise. I make the same promise as Steve. I also want to donate to some charities. Can you give me the names of the ones you donate to? Can you make some recommendations? -lily
Thu May 14, 11:35:00 AM
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Anonymous michelle said…
“But I have a problem with the fact that faith has become tradition and superstition and not about the principles the like of which are discussed by liberation theologists such as those mentioned…different topic, different article!”
yesyesyes! a gabillion times. with chicken fried steak on top.
steve, the harder part isn’t being all up in someone’s face with your view point — you can staple the article to their forehead, but that doesn’t mean they’ll read it.
that’s an interesting aspect about scenarios like the one Maha wrote about. it’s a whole attitude that has permeated things lately that’s seemingly impenetrable and utterly revolting, and it’s present in a multitude of spheres we humans inhabit.
Thu May 14, 09:57:00 PM
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Blogger Clay said…
I like Steve’s idea, too.
Too many people are only interested in human rights if they’re the ones receiving them. Care and thought aren’t given to propogating them, letting others have the same rights.
There’s a lack of appreciation for compassion and unity, a lack of recognition that humans are united simply by virtue of their humanity, and of existing together here.
It was once said by a wise man, “If anyone sees a wrong, let him change it with his hands; if he cannot, then let him change it with his voice; if he cannot, let him hate it in his heart, and beyond that there is no faith.”
Let’s all try that. All of us.
Fri May 15, 12:58:00 AM
**********
Anonymous Anonymous said…
clay.. that saying is attributed to Prophet Muhammad in the Muslim faith! My mother drilled it into me. i truly appreciated the last part sepcially.. you do not have a way out to just say there is nothing i can do about it so i might as well accept it.. even if there is nothing you can do about it, you do NOT accept it.
BB
Fri May 15, 05:00:00 PM
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Blogger one female canuck said…
Michelle – you wrote it best when you wrote: “that’s an interesting aspect about scenarios like the one Maha wrote about. it’s a whole attitude that has permeated things lately that’s seemingly impenetrable and utterly revolting, and it’s present in a multitude of spheres we humans inhabit.” …this is part of the reason I had to write about it. It’s everywhere and it’s getting worse. You almost want to take all of these privileged kids and throw them into a refugee camp or a war zone or someplace there isn’t internet and theatres and pubs and shopping. Anything to get their stupid lethargic asses into shape…
I really don’t know how to do it, but I do like Steve’s idea and have a copy of the article on me. I won’t be shy to hand it out to a dumb-ass and I will be prepared to deal with their wrath 🙂
Clay – I love, though not surprised, that you know that saying by the Prophet 🙂 — thank you for sharing it. And, of course, I couldn’t agree with you more, my friend…! All of us, indeed…
As for the lack of appreciation, I wonder >> would you agree that this seems pretty endemic to North America (maybe some parts more so than others)…and if you had to draw a general theory, why do you think that is the case here? To me, it’s a sense of entitlement that permeates everything in this part of the world. I believe that when we have too much access to anything, we loose a part of our humanity. Here, we have access and it’s almost grotesque just how much access we have…it’s part of the problem. To me, anyway.
Thoughts? (That’s open to all, not just Clay :O))
HI BB!!!!!!!
xxoo
Thu May 21, 10:39:00 PM
**********
Anonymous Austin Lisa said…
Excellent article! As you know, Maha, I’m a liberal woman of Mexican descent living in one of the most conservative states in the US — Texas! Fortunately, Austin is an oasis of progressive thinkers who give a damn, for the most part. It does seem that conservatives (ironically, many of them tout their own “Christianity” as loud and often as they can)in my country seem to be among the most apathetic of all. The old excuse: “I dont have time to worry about other people’s problems” is so fucking lame it makes me ill. It is every human being’s responsibility to be informed, engaged and reach out to help each other when possible because it DOES have an effect on us as a society. Period. Those of us who do care about suffering and injustice have a greater responsibility to remain vigilant about informing others and appealing to their consciences…and continue seeking out other viewpoints, etc. Also, I do feel there’s a link between a sense of entitlement and a lack of compassion. It’s easier (and intellectually lazier) to say, “well tough luck for them” than to question why and how.
Fri May 22, 11:47:00 AM
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Blogger one female canuck said…
Lisa – You know…one of the reasons I loved Austin the first time around was because of the progressive thinking. I don’t know if it’s because it’s a University town or whatnot, but it’s an excellent thing. Honestly, I think that perhaps Joe may be among the most politically conservative there!!
It’s interesting that you mention the most “Christian” tend to be the most apathetic – do you know the Opus Dei philosophy? It boggles the mind and I do believe it extends partially to what you’re saying – the idea being that if you are allowed to do something / can get away with it, then it’s only by God’s grace and so can’t be a bad thing. Translation: If you are using poverty stricken blind children to make soccer balls for pennies a month, and living like a fat asshole off the returns and the slave labour, it’s OKAY and GOOD because if God didn’t WANT it to happen, he wouldn’t allow it.
Sick, right?
Totally sick and goes against the very nature of theology and the freedom of choice given us by God.
Also, you’re dead on about the laziness aspect. People would rather spend a day watching movies, and not thinking, instead of having a 15 minute discussion about something tangible and that could maybe alter their stupid lives.
Ugh. I hate people a lot of the time…
xxoo
Sat May 23, 01:41:00 PM
**********
Blogger Clay said…
=] I’m glad you all thought it was appropriate, too. Why aren’t you surprised, though, Maha?
I have never been out of North America, so I wouldn’t know how bad the issue is elsewhere, but it does seem to be stereotypical of the West. I’d say you’ve got a pretty accurate idea though–when people are handed things without having to work for them, they come to expect whatever they need and whatever they want to be handed to them. Eventually it spreads into an expectation for others to accomodate them… and they fail to see that it would only be fair for others to be accomodated as well.
It creates the sense in their minds that they’re special, above the others, when really it just means that they’re spoiled.
Sat May 23, 05:59:00 PM
**********
Blogger one female canuck said…
Clay – I am always (pleasently) surprised when I read or learn that someone not Muslim has both an appreciation and respect for ISlam. I still struggle in the environment of hate that surrounds Islam, and that tries to demonize it.
…wait, unless you’re Muslim?
I have been thinking about this idea of entitlement and I swear to God it’s a disease. It is going to be the downfall of the ‘West’, never mind that it’s shape-shifting into material entitlement has already been the ruin of environment and livelihoods and natural resources the world over.
To speak to your same sentiment on the post about rape and torture – I really really don’t understand how we get here. How do we get here, in this position, in such a contorted state of fucking brutality? Grotesque, is how, and we’re all a little bit of a contributor…and it’s moments such as these where I think ‘I would be happy being a hermit’.
xxoo
Sun May 31, 11:39:00 AM
**********
Blogger Clay said…
What you said about material entitlement reminded me of something else: excessive commercialization. But that’s a topic for a different article.
Again, I think you had it when you said it had most to do with access. Access to excess.
Mon Jun 01, 01:30:00 AM
13 Comments:
Anonymous michelle said…
As always, it’s well written Miss M. Whether it’s online or off, one must stare situations like that in the face and what you decide to do is truly a reflection of who you are.
Of course it’s easier to tell someone they’re a dumb shit online. 😀
Two things: Isn’t Sarte also credited with the line “hell is other people” ? (I know nothing of the context of that quote, just the line itself)
And you might find this interesting, or you might not, a small snippet here:
“three of the four greatest American philanthropists have been athiests or agnostics. In a country in which 96% of the population say they believe in a supreme being, that’s a striking fact. It means that in one sense, Gates and Buffett are probably less self-interested in their charity than someone like Mother Teresa, who as a pious Roman Catholic believed in reward and punishment in the afterlife.”
sourceEnjoy the vacay!
Thu May 14, 08:59:00 AM
**********
Anonymous Anonymous said…
Posting this on behalf of Maha, who is stuck in the Toronto Airport for a few hours…with technical difficulties. Poor thing.
Love you beautiful. – Baby J.
hope this works – I’m trying to comment from the berry while in toronto’s airport.
.1. Existentialism / nihilism are contested on this point. This lecture by sartre was is response to ppl accusing the concepts of being without humanity.
The argument is strong on both cases – in theology-based, you must believe that you will have to answer to a greater being for your silence and so are we acting out of humanity or fear from the greater being? I know from where my actions come and I will be judged on what’s in my heart. Each individual knows that secret and only they know it. For me, it is between myself and God.
On the flip – for an atheist, to choose action and humanity JUST because, and not out of fear from a greater Being is arguably better than others.
In the end,I don’t give a fuck, quite honestly, why people are NOT apathetic. What I care about is that they act. Full stop.
I am in between re existentialism is a humanism. If sartre hadn’t needed to defend this, would he have written this lecture? And when one considers how he lived his private life, does this lecture make sense? I would argue ‘no’…but that’s just me.
.2. Interesting about atheists / Believers and philanthropy.
Like I sadi, I don’t care either way…but indeed interesting when one considers that over 80 or 85% of the world’s population believes in God. But I have a problem with the fact that faith has become tradition and superstition and not about the principles the like of which are discussed by liberation theologists such as those mentioned…different topic, different article!
Hope this goes through…am off to have chicken fried steak 🙂
Xxoo
Maha
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry.
Thu May 14, 10:32:00 AM
**********
Anonymous Anonymous said…
Whether or not you’re telling someone they’re a dumb shit on line or in real life, your name’s on this article and I, for one, applaud you for that.
That’s a lot more courage than people who either sit around and point fingers or just sit behind a handle and behave aggressively on-line where no one knows them – where there’s no picture of them or real name to be found.
I’m just sayin’.
By the way, I love this article and the fact that it’s so in your face. I am printing up and keeping it with me to hand off to the next asshole I meet or overhear.
That’s my promise.
Steve
Thu May 14, 11:28:00 AM
**********
Anonymous lily said…
Maha – this is another excellent fucking piece! It gave me goosebumps to read it and I read it a few times.
I’ve forwarded it to people also.
I promise to. Fuck, I don’t know what to promise. I make the same promise as Steve. I also want to donate to some charities. Can you give me the names of the ones you donate to? Can you make some recommendations? -lily
Thu May 14, 11:35:00 AM
**********
Anonymous michelle said…
“But I have a problem with the fact that faith has become tradition and superstition and not about the principles the like of which are discussed by liberation theologists such as those mentioned…different topic, different article!”
yesyesyes! a gabillion times. with chicken fried steak on top.
steve, the harder part isn’t being all up in someone’s face with your view point — you can staple the article to their forehead, but that doesn’t mean they’ll read it.
that’s an interesting aspect about scenarios like the one Maha wrote about. it’s a whole attitude that has permeated things lately that’s seemingly impenetrable and utterly revolting, and it’s present in a multitude of spheres we humans inhabit.
Thu May 14, 09:57:00 PM
**********
Blogger Clay said…
I like Steve’s idea, too.
Too many people are only interested in human rights if they’re the ones receiving them. Care and thought aren’t given to propogating them, letting others have the same rights.
There’s a lack of appreciation for compassion and unity, a lack of recognition that humans are united simply by virtue of their humanity, and of existing together here.
It was once said by a wise man, “If anyone sees a wrong, let him change it with his hands; if he cannot, then let him change it with his voice; if he cannot, let him hate it in his heart, and beyond that there is no faith.”
Let’s all try that. All of us.
Fri May 15, 12:58:00 AM
**********
Anonymous Anonymous said…
clay.. that saying is attributed to Prophet Muhammad in the Muslim faith! My mother drilled it into me. i truly appreciated the last part sepcially.. you do not have a way out to just say there is nothing i can do about it so i might as well accept it.. even if there is nothing you can do about it, you do NOT accept it.
BB
Fri May 15, 05:00:00 PM
**********
Blogger one female canuck said…
Michelle – you wrote it best when you wrote: “that’s an interesting aspect about scenarios like the one Maha wrote about. it’s a whole attitude that has permeated things lately that’s seemingly impenetrable and utterly revolting, and it’s present in a multitude of spheres we humans inhabit.” …this is part of the reason I had to write about it. It’s everywhere and it’s getting worse. You almost want to take all of these privileged kids and throw them into a refugee camp or a war zone or someplace there isn’t internet and theatres and pubs and shopping. Anything to get their stupid lethargic asses into shape…
I really don’t know how to do it, but I do like Steve’s idea and have a copy of the article on me. I won’t be shy to hand it out to a dumb-ass and I will be prepared to deal with their wrath 🙂
Clay – I love, though not surprised, that you know that saying by the Prophet 🙂 — thank you for sharing it. And, of course, I couldn’t agree with you more, my friend…! All of us, indeed…
As for the lack of appreciation, I wonder >> would you agree that this seems pretty endemic to North America (maybe some parts more so than others)…and if you had to draw a general theory, why do you think that is the case here? To me, it’s a sense of entitlement that permeates everything in this part of the world. I believe that when we have too much access to anything, we loose a part of our humanity. Here, we have access and it’s almost grotesque just how much access we have…it’s part of the problem. To me, anyway.
Thoughts? (That’s open to all, not just Clay :O))
HI BB!!!!!!!
xxoo
Thu May 21, 10:39:00 PM
**********
Anonymous Austin Lisa said…
Excellent article! As you know, Maha, I’m a liberal woman of Mexican descent living in one of the most conservative states in the US — Texas! Fortunately, Austin is an oasis of progressive thinkers who give a damn, for the most part. It does seem that conservatives (ironically, many of them tout their own “Christianity” as loud and often as they can)in my country seem to be among the most apathetic of all. The old excuse: “I dont have time to worry about other people’s problems” is so fucking lame it makes me ill. It is every human being’s responsibility to be informed, engaged and reach out to help each other when possible because it DOES have an effect on us as a society. Period. Those of us who do care about suffering and injustice have a greater responsibility to remain vigilant about informing others and appealing to their consciences…and continue seeking out other viewpoints, etc. Also, I do feel there’s a link between a sense of entitlement and a lack of compassion. It’s easier (and intellectually lazier) to say, “well tough luck for them” than to question why and how.
Fri May 22, 11:47:00 AM
**********
Blogger one female canuck said…
Lisa – You know…one of the reasons I loved Austin the first time around was because of the progressive thinking. I don’t know if it’s because it’s a University town or whatnot, but it’s an excellent thing. Honestly, I think that perhaps Joe may be among the most politically conservative there!!
It’s interesting that you mention the most “Christian” tend to be the most apathetic – do you know the Opus Dei philosophy? It boggles the mind and I do believe it extends partially to what you’re saying – the idea being that if you are allowed to do something / can get away with it, then it’s only by God’s grace and so can’t be a bad thing. Translation: If you are using poverty stricken blind children to make soccer balls for pennies a month, and living like a fat asshole off the returns and the slave labour, it’s OKAY and GOOD because if God didn’t WANT it to happen, he wouldn’t allow it.
Sick, right?
Totally sick and goes against the very nature of theology and the freedom of choice given us by God.
Also, you’re dead on about the laziness aspect. People would rather spend a day watching movies, and not thinking, instead of having a 15 minute discussion about something tangible and that could maybe alter their stupid lives.
Ugh. I hate people a lot of the time…
xxoo
Sat May 23, 01:41:00 PM
**********
Blogger Clay said…
=] I’m glad you all thought it was appropriate, too. Why aren’t you surprised, though, Maha?
I have never been out of North America, so I wouldn’t know how bad the issue is elsewhere, but it does seem to be stereotypical of the West. I’d say you’ve got a pretty accurate idea though–when people are handed things without having to work for them, they come to expect whatever they need and whatever they want to be handed to them. Eventually it spreads into an expectation for others to accomodate them… and they fail to see that it would only be fair for others to be accomodated as well.
It creates the sense in their minds that they’re special, above the others, when really it just means that they’re spoiled.
Sat May 23, 05:59:00 PM
**********
Blogger one female canuck said…
Clay – I am always (pleasently) surprised when I read or learn that someone not Muslim has both an appreciation and respect for ISlam. I still struggle in the environment of hate that surrounds Islam, and that tries to demonize it.
…wait, unless you’re Muslim?
I have been thinking about this idea of entitlement and I swear to God it’s a disease. It is going to be the downfall of the ‘West’, never mind that it’s shape-shifting into material entitlement has already been the ruin of environment and livelihoods and natural resources the world over.
To speak to your same sentiment on the post about rape and torture – I really really don’t understand how we get here. How do we get here, in this position, in such a contorted state of fucking brutality? Grotesque, is how, and we’re all a little bit of a contributor…and it’s moments such as these where I think ‘I would be happy being a hermit’.
xxoo
Sun May 31, 11:39:00 AM
**********
Blogger Clay said…
What you said about material entitlement reminded me of something else: excessive commercialization. But that’s a topic for a different article.
Again, I think you had it when you said it had most to do with access. Access to excess.
Mon Jun 01, 01:30:00 AM